|  Author | Topic: Feeding Raw (Read 915 times) |
bethszc
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|  | Feeding Raw
« Thread Started on Aug 10, 2005, 7:40am » | |
I have been feeding raw for about 4 years now, have had no problems and absolutely love it..BUT, recently I have known of 2 very knowledable people having dogs effected by salmonella. One of them lost their 5mth old puppy to it, the other a vet that had been feeding raw for years almost lost one of her dogs to it. This scares the heck out of me and I have been thinking more and more on switching to a kibble, seriously considering
http://www.timberwolforganics.com/
I am so on the fence because I do love the diet, I think every diet has some risks, ie kibble & bloat and I am not one for change but these concerns are starting to weigh on me....thoughts?
Beth
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SourceNRG
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #1 on Aug 10, 2005, 5:15pm » | |
Hi Beth!!
My first reaction is NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! DON'T stop feeding raw!!!!!! Read my thoughts on processed food (i.e. kibble ) on the post I made on these boards---under nutrition.
ALSO---go to the link on my website for Aunt Jeni's---please read on that site the article--"What's worng with pet foods??" AND "The Importance of feeding a natural diet".. If you want to be gurantedd to have health problems in animals, be it internal stuff/arthritis/ETC, then feed processed foods exclusively!! 
That said, what were the circumstances of what the people were doing...i.e. were they doing thier own diets, or were they using the commercialy prepared foods (like Bravo/Aunt Jeni's/ Steves/etc)??? What else do you know abou the situations in those 2 cases??
Also, are you familiar with the Pottenger Cat Study?/ Great study on 900 cats over 10 years and all the health issues they found with cooked versus raw foods (they split the groups into 2--one got raw/one got cooked). Price-Pottenger Foundation has more on that---we will SOON have a link to that on this site as well.
Sharon
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bethszc
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #2 on Aug 11, 2005, 12:50pm » | |
The case of the 5mth old puppy I know the cause was a bacterial infection that went septic from a raw marrow bone. The other I don't know the specifics but I am hoping I run into her at the agility trial this weekend so I can get the info.
Considering the fact that so many people are feeding raw in some form that a few incidences are bound to occur, regardless I do love the diet.....I just don't want my dogs to be a statistic.
Thank you for the mention of the cat study, I will look into it asap. Beth
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SourceNRG
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #3 on Aug 11, 2005, 8:37pm » | |
Hi Beth!!
So, the 5 momth old puppy was from a marrow bone......and then i question--what was the source of the bone?? (I buy all mine from either Canine Mastery, or Whole Foods-places I know i can trust-- and they are frozen). AND--besides the source, was it frozen, and what were the handling procedures up to and including the time it was givern??
My own, I buy frozen, and GIVE to my boys frozen......my husband and I call them "bone-pops"!! LOL!! But that way I never have to worry about how long they've been out/thawed/possibly starting to turn bad, etc.
Would love to know even more info!! It seems that usually something can be traced to an improper handling and/or source with these episodes.
Sharon
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pandrus
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #4 on Aug 15, 2005, 9:13pm » | |
My three dogs also get frozen marrow bones. It seems they get more out of them if they're frozen. They sure work at it more anyways!
Question: I was at a herding clinic over the weekend in the 100 degree weather. Phew. Anyways, as we were sitting under the EZE Up fanning ourselves, the question of, "What do you feed your dog" came up. And, as expected, there were probably ten different answere ranging from Purina Pro Plan to table scraps to raw. One guy said that he feeds his dogs the Billingshurst raw diet because it's complete, but he adds it to kibble. Sharon, as you know I feed my dogs a high quality kibble that you've tested to each of my dogs, but I also understand and agree to feeding raw. And also last year I fed kibble in the morning and raw at night and you were fine with that. Like you said, "Half raw is better than no raw at all!" I've just always heard that you shouldn't mix kibble with raw in the same meal as the guy at the clinic did. Why is that? I've never understood it.
Paula
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maggie
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #5 on Aug 16, 2005, 11:58am » | |
Hi Beth - everytime I hear someone say a dog was affected by salmonela from raw food, I get very suspicious unless the food was tested and it did contain salmonela. If salmonela is such an issue, then why don't people who work in poultry plants get sick? I for one do not believe it's as rampid as people make it out to be. Also, don't forget that a dog's digestive system is much shorter than ours. Dogs can handle bacteria much better than we can. After all, they are scavengers. Heck, I leave bones out for my dogs for weeks. They cook in the sun and the dogs love them. I'm sure this is not what Sharon wants to hear.
There is a risk with everything we do. There is a risk with raw feeding just like there is a risk from feeding kibble. We have to make that decision. You've been feeding your dogs a raw diet with great success. I'm sure you store their food properly just like you do your own. I'd seriously step back and look at the entire picture before changing the way your dogs eat. You may also think about what can happen to their digestive system with a change of food. You are going from food that is digested 'normally' to a food that is going to take much longer to digest. How is this going to affect them? This of course is Sharon's area of expertise.
Hope I didn't make matters worse.
Maggie
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bethszc
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #6 on Aug 16, 2005, 12:32pm » | |
Thanks Maggie, you guys are right of course, I am a worrier at heart though!
I only quickly got a chance to speak with the vet that had the salmonella scare so I did not get the specifics...only that it was after feeding chix thighs, her 2 large dogs were effected, her smaller terrier was not. It was also not confirmed that it was salmonella, only assumed because it was after feeding raw.
I just started reading Performance Dog Nutrition: Optimize Performance w/ Nutrition by Jocelynn Jacobs, anyone else had a chance to read it? The author was at one time employed by a kibble company so I am not sure how broad a spectrum there will be, anxious to continue reading it.....
I am wondering about using the Timber Wolf Organics for when I travel though. Normally I buy freeze dried raw but it is very pricey for 2 dogs. Last weekends trial the temps were between 100-110 and humid so even with a cooler I would have been hesitant to carry raw with me. Beth
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SourceNRG
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #7 on Aug 16, 2005, 4:50pm » | |
Great posts!!
Paula--I love your description of asking 10 different people and getting 10 different diets. LOL!!! I would expect nothing less. As to mixing kibble and raw in the same meal, that is NOT a problem...don't know where THAT one got started. The only thing I could think of is that there weren't proper digestive enzymes supplemented, if necessary, to help handle the digestion of them.....which wouldn't matter whether they were together or NOT. Many animals need additional digestive help of some sort or another---so maybe those animals weren't getting enough, or whatever...!!! And yes, half raw is better than no raw, AND we have tested your dogs to their specific diets so that is great!!!
Maggie--thank you for your very sage words about the whole Salmonella thing. And I don't care if your dog's bones sit out baking in the sun for days.... LOL!!!  you nailed it when you said about the risks involved with feeding ANY kind of diet. Kibble and bloat probably cause more percentage deaths in dogs than raw feeding does. AND---I would rather NOT have all the health issues/cancers associated with feeding exclusively processed foods, a la Pottenger studies and also what I see in my practice on a day in and day out basis.
Beth---Don't know the Perfomance Dogs Nutrition book---nor have I ever heard of the author. Please give us a book review when you are done!!!!!
As to the Timberwolf, it makes me "queasy" for your 2. I think a better choice for the road is to either stick with freeze dried, OR go with Merrick canned food--looks like a stew (not typical looking canned food)..they could do Cowboy Cookout.....that "feels" better as a temporary road food if you wanted to not do freeze dried, or do LESS freeze dried and make up the rest with the Merrick.
Hope this plus what everyone else has said has allayed some fears.
Sharon
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smasse42
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #8 on Sept 10, 2005, 3:28pm » | |
Just catching up and here is my 2cents on raw.LOL I feed my gang raw and do not use prepared food expect I do buy whole carcass rabbit ground fur and all for my EPI girl, who is now 5. I started her on raw because she couldn't tolerate kibble of any kind and after doing my research I discovered raw worked best for EPI doggies. I switched my other girl who was then 1 yr old to raw. Then I did my first shiloh shep breeding and the pups started on raw chicken thighs at 4 weeks and then, being the addict I am, would only place the pups in homes that were willing to raw feed. There are several good books on raw feeding a couple are Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale and Switching to Raw by Susan K. Johnson . I have a question about mixing the kibble with raw-my understanding is that it is harder on the digestive system as it takes so much longer for the kibble to be digested. Wouldn't it be better to feed them seperately rather than mix it? I never feed marrow bones because of the possiblitly of breaking those teeth. I do however feed large beef bones, goat bones, and knuckle bones. Sheila and the shilohs crew
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SourceNRG
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #9 on Sept 12, 2005, 8:02pm » | |
Hi Sheila--
As to feeding kibble and raw together (rather than at seperate times), I for one have never understood where this idea of not feeding the 2 together ever got started from. To my mind, knowing how the physiology of the GI tract works, it makes no difference if they are fed together!!! And have often had people do so with no adverse effects.
As to bones, have had dogs crack teeth on rib bones, too, so guess it's just dependant on the dog/it's teeth staus/etc. Have gotten lucky with my boys and marrow bones---no teeth crackage!! LOL!!
Sharon
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susanc
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| | Re: Feeding Raw
« Reply #10 on Aug 22, 2007, 5:56am » | |
I am wondering about using the Timber Wolf Organics for when I travel though. Normally I buy freeze dried raw but it is very pricey for 2 dogs. Last weekends trial the temps were between 100-110 and humid so even with a cooler I would have been hesitant to carry raw with me. Beth
Hi Beth (& all others) ! I am new here but was really glad to find this board; there seem to be alot of people from New England that post here. I am in RI. ;-)
I just wanted to tell you that I have been feeding a combo of raw(my own or Bravo or Steve's when I am in a hurry) and Timberwolf Organic kibble for about 8 yrs. now with great success. Our dogs range in age from 1 1/2 yrs. old to 12 yrs.; we have Miniature Pinschers and American Bulldogs. The main reason for using a "combo" was the expense involved with dog's of the AmBul's size. I tried to do this but found after a year I just could not keep it up. They had formerly been on T.O. kibble and home-cooked, so I incorporated the kibble back in and it was fine as Sharon said.
T.O. is a good line of products and their Salmon Oil is also exceptional. We normally use either the Black Forest or the Ocean Blue; the owner of Timberwolf has formulated his dry foods to allow for mixing in raw meats. If you go to his site, he explains the mineral or phosphorus ratios he uses to allow people to be able to do this without throwing off "balance" in the dog. I believe he recommends 25% raw with 75% kibble. It has been so long I have forgotten for sure but I think that is right.
I noticed you are from Warwick; T.O. is available in many of our holistic shops in Warwick. There is also a wonderful T.O. distributor right in Warwick if you want to buy in bulk. ;-)
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